Brent Abel: Playing and Winning Senior Tennis

October 6, 2022
Written By: Jack Broudy
Brent Abel: Playing and Winning Senior Tennis

0:00:00.0 Brent Abel: Talking with real today.

0:00:02.7 Brent Abel: We're living at the 45 and Brent probably even knows what that means. When I say living at the 45, I've got a pretty good idea. Yeah, that's...

0:00:12.8 Jack Broudy: I'm sure there's a ton of people that are gonna wanna watch this, me personally, I saw your name come up some place on social media, and I just said, God, what's happened? It is, I gotta talk to this guy. I don't hear from you much anymore, I'm glad that's been forever. 20 years. Has it been 20 years, Mike?

0:00:33.9 Brent Abel: I think it's been...

0:00:34.5 Jack Broudy: Well, I know I came up with the eight board about twenty years ago. 2000-1999. And that's kind of when I met you. Pretty much it was, you saw the product, I don't know, and it seems like that was when I met you right around that time, I can't remember meeting you before that... Well, I didn't get going until 19-99. I got my first domain in 99 and you know, back in the day then, it was all dial-Lupe, we didn't have high speed connection, so there was no audio, no video, we had to figure it out, we... How would we write text as if were on the tennis court teaching, and I thought that was really... That was kind of a unique thing. And a fun challenge, yeah. I started at the same time, really. Yeah, no, I think the aboard for me was one of the first products that I promoted. You talk about it.

0:01:37.0 Brent Abel: Did you combine it with that other... That tennis ball that

0:01:41.2 Jack Broudy: You find the two... And something called the practice hit, that's it, the practice, his little cheap plastic thing that if you have definitely had a lifespan of maybe 72 hits and that was about it. But no, I sold a lot of those. For sure. I know, I know, I know you are more than anyone else, are you still playing tournaments? I know that's one of your big things that I was admired to you, you didn't just talk the talk... You know what I mean? You're out there grinding. Still in the 50s, in the 60s. I don't know. You're still doing it. I get a new age group next year, Jack, I go into 75, so like any of these guys who are first year in the age group, and the age groups are all five years long, is I get to be the rookie, I get to be the young guy next year started and started January 1, so it's a great incentive to kinda keep working and...

0:02:40.1 Brent Abel: Yeah, for me, when I first started web tennis back in 1999, before we started the recording, I was mentioning that's when I got my first domain as I've been teaching at that point for almost 30 years, and I was beat up, I was worn out, I was still I was 50, 50 years old, 51, and I just decided I would love to find a way with this internet, I don't know if there's a possibility, but maybe there's a way to get my tennis knowledge out on the web and not have to teach so much tennis I could start doing some training and be able to do really what I love doing, which was training and playing tournaments and seeing how good I could get and so...

0:03:25.7 Jack Broudy: Yeah, for sure. I mean, the whole internet tennis instructional thing, eventually helped me retire from the California ten Lab in San Francisco in 2005, and I just thought, if I can do this full-time, maybe I can at worst replace my income from the cow Club, and that took... It took about a year, 18 months to be able to do that. And so, yeah, that's been able... Or their desk, the thing that's helped me be able to get out there and play tournaments, and I just love... I love the competition, I love the friends that I've made over the decades. I love, I love some of the traveling, I don't love all the travel, but some of it's fun, been to Europe several times to represent the United States and the senior tennis role cup, and so that's always a great honor, and just playing internationally is a unique experience. I think because you end up playing against guys some other countries who don't speak a word of English, well, not... I wouldn't say literally, but... And I don't speak their language, but there's this camaraderie in terms of the love of the game, and it's just a great experience.

0:04:43.4 Brent Abel: So

0:04:44.3 Brent Abel: Yeah, that's what I'm doing. I have not done much publishing of videos this year, 2022, mid-December 2021, I decided.

0:04:54.6 Brent Abel: You know what, I've been putting something out there every day for years... Yeah, I'm tired.

0:05:01.2 Brent Abel: That's...

0:05:02.0 Jack Broudy: Now I'm grinding, I'm putting out three or four with videos every week. That's what I'm grinding right now. But I'm just a pop, I'm 67, so you know... Well, so you're a youngster. There you go, you got... But so anyway, I thought I would take about two weeks off mid-December of last year, and then I come back January 1st, and every month is kind of rolled by and I just go, Well, you know, I'm still gonna take a little time on, so I know I'll get back to something in terms of publishing, but just not sure when or what the subject matter is gonna be, we'll publish this for sure, so that'll be something Satori... Well, You know, it's really funny, I'm just now, you know, I coached a lot of youngsters, you know that for me and Steve, and I am warranted all those kids back then, but now I'm doing something interesting, you might... You might find interesting. I'm working with this guy I moved, I'm not living in California. I told you I'm in the mountains of Colorado now, and I got one student here, I got a lot of online students, but I have one physical student I see a couple of times a week, and he actually just got a letter yesterday or day before yesterday, he got a player, male tennis Player of the Year for Colorado.

0:06:23.8 Brent Abel: Wow. And yeah, and that's open and he just turned 35, so we decided, Let's go for number one in the country, he's a very good player, he's solid UT, 11, 12, and great experience. MAHE was number one in his country when he was a junior, Belarus in the 14s, he's got wins over dog Olav on. So he's been around the block, but I've been working with him quite a bit, a couple of times a week, and we're playing tournaments now, so he's convincing me after 40 years in my early 20s to go play. So my age group, 65 and over, I'd be in the middle of the pack. Right, 67. Perfect, so I entered in a mature out and... Yeah, I tattooed. That's when I reached out to you and I said, What, Gee, this guy plays all the age groups, and now I'm considering doing that. So what's the magic bullet other than, get back in shape again? Well, clearly, the guys who are the fittest have a real advantage, even against guys who've been playing forever, but if they've gotten out of shape a little bit, the fitness thing at this age is just a given, you just have to do it.

0:07:39.6 Jack Broudy: But I think the other thing too is that, is that you just gotta fill up your calendar with as many events as you can possibly get into and not think that, Well, I'm gonna train and cherry pick this one tournament and do that because to me... And as well as you know, Jack, so much of the learning about our game comes during competition where the result is actually made public, and it's one thing to go out and play your local venue and your comecon lines. You get the same guy every Wednesday morning. But that's not really an indicator as to how you're going to do another state away or another section away, or even in a national tennis where it's a completely different venue, the conditions are different weather conditions, and so my advice to you would be, obviously, getting in the best condition, you can get in and it 65 plus years old. We gotta be smart about how we do that because we are more susceptible to getting Nick and dinged, and we just don't wanna get nicked a point where I gotta take two, three weeks off here, so you have to be smart about the tennis training, but dish of in your calender, just go out there and just learn about your game by playing as many events as possible, and look, if you're 60, you said 67 now.

0:09:12.9 Brent Abel: You turned 68 this year. You turn 68 next year. Next year, I just turned her 67. Alright, so you've basically got two years to be able to really... And I think that's great. I mean, the expectations, I wouldn't have any expectations at all other than the zeroth than just get out there and see where you're at

0:09:33.9 Jack Broudy: And go... Okay, alright, after for a couple of events, I see that I'm going for the up to line tennis forehand tennis winner way to really in the point or whatever, you'll figure out what's unique for you in that kind of setting, and then you go back and you work on it... And by the time you hit the 70s, you're just... First of all, you're in the youngest part of the 70s, which doesn't seem like much every five years as we get older, but it does make a difference, and I just go out there just have... I just enjoy the whole process of the training of... Just that whole mine. You say, Okay, I'm gonna go out and compete, I'm gonna change it. I haven't done for 40 years, and I'm gonna focus on myself. And I think that it'll be a great experience. And to me, it's always about... It's less about, I wanna win this tournament in, I wanna get another goal ball, I wanna do this, I wonder that it's way more about How good can I get without comparing myself to others, and that'll happen naturally, if you just see how good you can get, and do the things that are in your control, 'cause so much this does

0:10:51.8 Brent Abel: It

0:10:52.7 Brent Abel: Out of our control, I mean, it's crazy.

0:10:56.4 Jack Broudy: And I think, I mean, we just had something like that this past week, and to this guy I'm telling you about, he only plays open around here, he's just gonna play national 35s tennis, but around here he plays open and he does well, he's on a couple and goose is of a couple in loss to the winner.

0:11:18.0 Brent Abel: So in this last one...

0:11:19.3 Jack Broudy: That's exactly right. Talk about out of your control, they... Because of rain, we had some rain recently, they pushed his match to 10 o'clock at night, owls... A 22-year-old at 10 o'clock at night, you know, I don't know about you, but after about 35, 40, 90 o'clock comes, I'm ready to go to back, Lilly, sure. He was a little frustrated at work all day, and then he played that match 10-1 order files, good player beat A UTR 10 good tennis player. Solid tennis performance three and two, I think, and then he had to play the next day, a very good player. The guy is ranked 1034 in the world. So young guy, 23 years old on the circuit out there, he's got a few two or three ATP points, so my guys gotta play him the next day, and one of those things when you say it's out of your control, a... The match got pushed back 'cause the doubles match was no ad scoring, which it should have been, but... So that match went forever, and the full set, 7-5 and the third, so we had to wait three hours to play that tennis match, and he was tired from it.

0:12:32.5 Brent Abel: He told me, he says, You know, by the time the match was on, I didn't even wanna play, I just wanted to go home. I was so tired and waiting around, and my wife left and his best friend left, no one can wait three hours, everyone's gotta go to work or do something, or pick the kids up, so all of his friends started leaving, so by the time he played, I was the only one there. And his wife, and that was it, just the two of us. But it started with a nice little untried, but like you say, not everything's in your control, so that was a real... Yeah, I played some tournaments, I played some grass court tournaments in the East Coast that end up being played on red clay into our red clay because water... Yeah.

0:13:14.4 Brent Abel: So what happens is you go play the tennis national grass courts, and from time to time, not time of time, but there's a lot of weather back East in the summer, and you can get ran out for a few days and they go, Look, we gotta go ahead and play some tennis matches, so we're going indoors on the red clay, and there have been guys who win the National grass court event on red clay and the finals. So you talk about things that are out of your control. A, that's a pretty good example, but just unusual things, little tiny things such as you're playing next to the parking lot of the club, and all of a sudden someone... That car alarm horn will not stop, and it just happens to be right next to the course you're playing on, and you've gotta find a way, mostly with these things are out of your control, not to start building a story in your mind about what if I lose and I've got this excuse, and you do this excuse story, and I think... I used to be guilty of that. I finally learned over the years that this stuff's gonna happen and the better players just find a way to work, kinda do a work around, whether it's windy, whether the courts are in bad shape, whether the guy over there who you played 10 times and you've beaten the guy, 10 out of 10 times, and now all of a sudden, he's having the day of his life, he can't miss, and what do you do? You know, you've gotta figure out a way, Okay, well, whatever I'm doing here is exactly what He wants, so I gotta figure out something different, so...

0:14:57.4 Brent Abel: Yeah.

0:14:57.5 Brent Abel: I mean, to get back to your question, look, just get in the best shape you can.

0:15:02.3 Brent Abel: And I look... For me, it's so much of it is the kitchen, if you get the kitchen right and you look like a healthy guy Jack, so I'm assuming that you're eating right, but if you get that right, then it's kind of automatic that you're gonna start... You're gonna start not only having good endurance, but some good quickness in being nimble, and you know as well as I do, that one of the big Fundamentals in tennis is the consistency in our spatial distance away from the path of the incoming ball, you... Getting out of your own way has always been the issue, not even so much running to a ball, but when the ball's hit at you, you gotta get out the way and you gotta line up at the same... Look, my strategy over the last few years, if I'm going right at the guy, if he's right in the middle of the court, I'm going right at 'em and I'm gonna challenge him to have good, good spatial listening, and if he doesn't, then for him it becomes technique becomes kind of like improvisation. And to me, I like that. I want that guy, I want that guy specially to be as inconsistent as possible, so fitness helps you get more consistent, I think with your overall spacing, and then just go out there and play a ton.

0:16:29.6 Jack Broudy: Just play a ton of tennis. Tennis forehands, tennis backhands, tennis serve.

0:16:31.2 Brent Abel: And then even if you're practicing tennis, I mean, if you got a tennis club, invite yourself over to someone else's Club and just say, Look, why don't we do a home and home? And go down to the worst public park tennis court you can find the worst conditions and just get comfortable.

0:16:51.5 Brent Abel: And what you do that I think you'll find that the game becomes more fun and look, you know, competition competing is just the greatest... The greatest tennis it is. I mean, of course, there are the caveats, especially in the juniors, getting cheated, that can turn someone off, especially if you're a sweet kid, you're like, Hey, I don't wanna do this anymore. That's always bothered me actually a chair, 'cause there's many good players as I had, I had three or four that were gorgeous players, they played as pretty as Warren pretty as anyone, but they didn't wanna compete in the 14s... In the 16S, they said, You know what, Jack? And they were very smart, they ended up... I ended up being a doctor, I mean, very smart people and really sweet kids, but they just, they weren't tough enough and they just... And I didn't want them to be tough, they were who they were, so... Cheating is an issue. I don't think it's an issue. And adults is it? I can't imagine in every age group, you're gonna find someone... If you play enough events and enough matches or to find someone, Are they gonna have a reputation like they do in the junior, most guys, most guys who like to pull the hook out, I've got a reputation and you can't use that as an excuse.

0:18:10.0 Brent Abel: Just you gotta be prepared. If it happens, okay, you know my solution is pretty standard, I just let the guy have one call, and then after that, I just go to net and don't accuse him, I just said, Look, I just think we need some help out here, and I'll go get someone if it's a tournament.

0:18:27.3 Brent Abel: If it's someone who's cheating me in practice, it stars, I just don't... I just don't play him away, I just don't... I just, you know, I don't need to, you know...

0:18:39.5 Brent Abel: There's a guy at Mission Hills Country Club where we are in the winter time. Tommy Tucker, I don't know if you know that We...

0:18:45.6 Jack Broudy: Tommy, he used to be... He coached me. He's older than me. He coached me when I was at Harry Hopman. Well, Tommy's mid-80s. Yeah, Tommy Tucker. Yeah, he was a tennis coach at Harry Hopman Tennis Academy when I was 15 or 60 I and I guess... Alright, and he coached me. I know, I remember him. He was a nighter guy. Well, he's a great guy. And a cousin Hills forever, he's been there since the 70s. And I go to him from time to time, and I asked him a question. And so this one time I said, there's this guy who lives in the desert, it keeps inviting me over to his house, I've been over the couple of times he's got a court, but the guy is just cheating me like crazy, and I can't stand it, he just kind of looked at me, so, well, look, this is a perfect opportunity for you to develop the skin against that kind of guy, because you know when you play tournaments, not every Mass at every tournament, but there's gonna be someone who intentionally makes a bad call, we all make... We all miss as

0:19:50.5 Brent Abel: Now and then unintentionally, and I don't mind if I've missed a call and the guy says, I think you missed it, I go, Sorry, man, you can have the point, but if someone... And he just said to, IUs said, Look, it's a great opportunity to get out there with a guy once a week and just continue to practice against that kind of guide. And don't use it as an excuse. So Leo builder.

0:20:15.6 Brent Abel: I guess. It's just a part of the game. If you're gonna compete again, you can't cherry pick your event, you can't share and pick your opponents, so it's a reality from time to before, it's probably a whole lot less than the seniors and it is in the June...

0:20:33.4 Jack Broudy: Well, you know, I actually enjoy playing up here now, like yesterday, we went up to the mountains, Mount Vernon Country Club where we play a lot, and it's crazy up there, and I like it, it keeps you on your toes. It makes you move, 'cause you know, I'm just hitting the ball up the middle, it's pretty easy after a while, you just start ripping the ball and... I don't know, the wind kinda makes it a little more fun for me, it keeps you on your toes, so I like the elements, the cheating was always tough, I would just get furious. But once again, I haven't really played competition since a little bit after college tennis, you know, you play a few after college, and then you start making a living, and coach players better than... I coached a lot of players a whole lot better than I was, so I just got involved in the coaching for and the decades go by so quickly that I turn around... It doesn't seem like I haven't played a singles tournament in 40 years, maybe 42, 43 years, but it's gone that fast, and I'm like, Holy cow, in some ways I feel like, well, I could go out there and play singles, but it's kinda like...

0:21:45.4 Brent Abel: I guess if you haven't picked up your guitar in 40 years, or gun surfing in 40 years, you're not gonna be great the first time out. No.

0:21:52.7 Jack Broudy: No, you're not. And that's just... That's normal.

0:21:55.6 Brent Abel: And that's kind of the way it should be. It shouldn't be that easy, you take out 42 years and you go back and you start winning event, so... Yeah.

0:22:05.8 Jack Broudy: How did you serve and return to... That's my big question, like as you served you, when you first came back under pressure, it was a serve right there. Was that the one thing that was there?

0:22:16.1 Brent Abel: 'cause you can practice that on your own with a bus basket of tennis balls or that... Did you tighten up on tennis serves, how was the serve and how is the return... That's what I'd be curious about it. Yeah, I mean, if you're served technically, it is good then to me, it's all about just not rushing to get ready for the return, and I think in practice, we do that less, we don't rush as early as quickly to get out of the service, motion to get ready for whatever might come back, and yet we did into a competitive situation, I think that's what we do is we wanna make sure we're ready for the return, so we kinda cut off the finish of the server. We get a little short on everything. And so my advice is to trust that if you... This is assuming you've got good technique on the tennis Serve, and assuming that you do is just trust that you don't have to rush to get ready for the return. At the altitude that we're out here to serve, gets over there a little bit.

0:23:20.6 Jack Broudy: If the guy squares up on it and

0:23:22.6 Brent Abel: It's a pretty... Well, it can get back pretty early, but I still like to feel like I've really gotta make sure that I finish the motion on my time, and don't try to get ready for whatever might come back to early. And that's when rapeseed slows down. That's when the fluidity of the whole service motion slows down, so... But that may take you a couple of matches, once you get out and that competitive or read, it might take you a time when you tell yourself, come on, I just relaxed. This is fine, or

0:23:55.3 Brent Abel: Susan, the reality is like 65 years old. How many guys are taking every one of your first serves.

0:24:02.7 Brent Abel: Every one of your second tennis serves and just crushing it right back down the middle as... For now.

0:24:10.8 Brent Abel: I was... You know.

0:24:11.3 Brent Abel: It's funny, I was gonna ask you that when I was in one of my last doubles tournaments, I was in my early 30s 31 and I played Yang Luke Jensen. Remember Luke Jensen? Absolutely, sure. And he just, he just was so dominating with the serve because he's a much bigger guy than I am, right, he's gotta have 40 pounds on me, 50 pounds and probably four inches on me, I think he was about 6 foot 4, and I was six and... Is it still like that and the seniors where you can just get blown out by a big guy, or is that sort of... You know, you're not gonna run into a UC 13. Are you in that... So there are a couple of guys in my age group who hit a big ball, but they're just not very consistent now, there are times... There are times when they just don't miss, and to me, it's those times when I've gotta figure out a way here to lengthen out the match as long as possible, meaning take as much time between my service points is legal. Don't give the guy waste high pace, thinking out, well, I don't want them to hit the tennis ball, so I'm gonna go from core in a corner, and then you start missing or whatever is...

0:25:32.7 Brent Abel: What does he not really want...

0:25:35.5 Brent Abel: And for me, most of what the guys don't want is kind of a loopy semi-lobby, not really a lot, but kind of a semi-looper high over the net over to the back and side, 'cause most guys you are hitting bigger, hitting big off the forehand and not the back end, and just give it a steady diet of it, just say, Look, here's what I'm gonna do, man, I'm going deep to the ad cords, you're right-handed, and I'm gonna go high. And I ask actually, I think this one guy play actually in Oman, Croatia a couple of years ago in the team event, big tennis hitter, big tennis hitter, and I lost a first set and I just thought, Well, he's not gonna see another forehand, and I just thought, Why can't I go over there and just tell them, Hey, nice for a set, but by the way, every ball that I can look at your back inside, I'm gonna do it. And I found that if I hit it too deep, he just stepped in, pick it up on the rise and be able to kinda clean it off, so I just found if I could just take it and look at it, like right in the middle of that quadrant of the outside, then he can't step in and it gets up and he can make a play on it, but he's not crushing the tennis ball, so the answer is yes, there are a few into 65 70s who can hit the Castillo, but if you're smart, you can find ways to neutralize it sounds...

0:27:16.6 Jack Broudy: It really sounds like when you get into the senior tennis events, all of a sudden I'm thinking, Shit, it sounds like you're back in the 12s and 14s, the guy who gets the ball back and a steady pusher is the guy who's gonna win, it seems like in the men's open is when it gets tougher, but I guess it seems like seniors are kind of like the 12 and 14... Well, I would say that I wouldn't describe it as pushing, I would describe it as less side-to side in terms of, I'm not gonna play this guy from corner to corner, it's more vertical, so I understand the best shot, at least for me in my game, I can play a top or back in, if I need to pass a guy, I can do it, or in doubles, if I wanna return cross court with the TAs from back in, flat semi, I can do it. But the best shot for me is really the slice back and drive that I can disguise and be able to play a drop shot off of it, so really, in terms of making a guy run in the seniors, it's easier for them to run side to side, then it is to run forward and then have to run back.

0:28:30.5 Brent Abel: I find that in all age groups actually... Yeah, group, and I think we're seeing it now with Alcor as and other guys who are playing these beautiful drive on a tenant, even if the guy gets to it, he's so vulnerable core position-wise, that I'm hoping that we see more and more of it in the pro game, so that the rest of us kinda go, Oh, well, maybe there's another way to challenge this guy, other than just trying to doing it from corner to corner, you know, I was actually surprised at how dumb the girls played in the US Open because after watching 10 just take Serena apart. And all she did was Chip short, and then deep, and then Short and Deep, she had nothing crossed cords, she didn't make her move that way, it completely discombobulated Serena, but then she goes to the US open first two rounds. Everyone's trying to go through her, and I'm like, What are you people doing out... The women are not famous right now for their touch or a drop shot, but 10, she played like Santoro ice or wasn't two hands, but she played just like Santoro slice on both sides, and...

0:29:41.5 Jack Broudy Well, I was really just really... Was through Serena Williams tennis.

0:29:44.4 Brent Abel: Yeah, yeah, no, that's right. And it's disappointing when Bardi retired because I thought if we had another five to 10 years of ash Bardi that I think she would have shown the rest of the tour that... Look, having the commodity, a big forehand, big tennis backhand and an average tennis serve week-er, but... Yeah.

0:30:10.3 Brent Abel: It's not gonna get it done.

0:30:11.6 Brent Abel: So you gotta work on your serve, you gotta work on the dropper, you gotta work on a bunch of other early type shots, and so I was really... I loved watching her play, but I do... I just thought, Man, the other girls are not gonna see... Are not gonna see this long enough to start to realize, Well.

0:30:36.5 Brent Abel: I taste... Same thing with head in, right, man.

0:30:39.9 Brent Abel: She was brilliant. And she quit tennis at 26 or something like that. I mean, very young. Yeah, no, you look at sales, you look at things, hinges, guys who really opened up the whole court, and so it just weren't... I mean, I see a lot of kids these days who were down at Mission Hills, we've got some good players down there, and it's all about this commodity of how big can I hit from the baseline, and I'm just thinking to myself, If you out in the tour, there are other girls out there who have a better commodity than you do, and you gotta add some other stuff, you gotta figure something else out here, other than just trying to hit the big ball.

0:31:34.7 Brent Abel: Yeah, I mean.

0:31:35.3 Jack Broudy: All the girls, I think back to people like Dimentieva and Asia, I mean, they all sort of played the same gorgeous grounds, but really that was about it, a no touch, no serf to speak of. I didn't like to get up to net unless they're picking up a ball or something, they really didn't get to net, so you're right, it is kind of a one-trick pony. Especially in the women's game. But Akers, a different beast, I enjoyed watching him. So I was saying all year long, right after Indian Wells, I'm going, This guy, I think he's gonna win a slam this year, and sure enough, but with that said, I don't... I'm a sour grapes guy, but there's still a huge strict... Without joke image. To me, that's a huge, huge Astros, you... And we don't know. I mean, now, back in a play then, who knows, you never know, I certainly could have won and someone could have beaten them. I just think the young guys are finally making a dent, and the young guys, I look at center and alkaline and some of these other guys, I've just gone... It's a different game.

0:32:49.2 Brent Abel: I mean, that masseter and Alcoa played in what was at the quarters, around the 16th was the quarter, that was the man as the match of the tournament it...

0:32:57.8 Brent Abel: That one in the man.

0:32:58.8 Jack Broudy: I like the Medvedev Kygrios. Those were my two tennis matches... Yeah, no, I just thought these guys were playing at a different level than we've ever seen before, and so

0:33:08.5 Brent Abel: Really, you say you could put that above... Even fed Joe a inch and a Dallas.

0:33:17.4 Brent Abel: I think in terms of... And again, this is without actually having data, which would...

0:33:24.2 Brent Abel: I'm thinking of Center and RAs without having to the data of seeing what's the average ball speed these guys are hitting at, what's the average landing place of the balls, how much core are they covering? And to me, it just felt like not only the upping the MPH is on average with their ground, yes. But I think they're covering a little bit more court as well, and the mental part of these guys, I mean, God, I just... If curious... And I don't think he can. I think there's too much damage from whatever, whatever happened to this guy, I don't know when where as a kid, but if he ever could figure out and realize that the mental part of what center does... Of what Alcor as does. Well, he had a pretty...

0:34:14.8 Jack Broudy I'm a big Kygrios fan, but I think he had a pretty good year. They say other than Rafa Nadal, the best year, until this last tournament, he had the best year going into the US Open.

0:34:26.5 Brent Abel: It could be...

0:34:29.1 Jack Broudy I just think there's more in the tank for this guy, and I think he's maximizing all the physical stuff in terms of the service, incredible, the tennis forehand, incredible. The back end is like the most simple to... I love his back end... Yes. Such a small stroke, I just don't... I just think if he doesn't figure out the mental thing, I think he's maxed out, and I'm not a big fan of all the scream and then yellin and Barack and swearing and all this stuff, I just...

0:35:02.4 Brent Abel: I'm a tennis purist, I just like, it's the same way I felt about Rios back in 2000. He wasn't the nicest guy. Probably wouldn't give you an autograph if you asked him, but you know what, I loved his game, and that's how I really care about... You know me with the figure and I'm a purist, I wanna see the best, most efficient... I'm Roger fan all the way through and through, as far as I'm concerned, to me, he's the go because of how many tournaments you want, but how he won them.

0:35:36.2 Jack Broudy: I used to play a game with myself. I put hit pause when I'm watching matches, and if you had paused with Serena Williams or Venus Williams and you pause, you can catch them looking like they're falling out of a tree, but I swear to God, you cannot catch better in a bad post. It was just a little game I play, and it was just incredible. Whenever you saw Roger Federer, he looked balanced, he was always... He was like a bird flying with both wings or a scale, you know, this whole back, he was always perfectly balanced. If one hip was down, the other rose up, if one shoulder was down, the... Everything was perfect, whether it was a horizontal plane or the vertical plane, and that's kind of how I feel about keroro Hendon. I have certain favorite people I like to watch, so... I know for me too, I mean, Rogers, I love watching Sampras as well. I thought Sampras was really on good balance and the back trouble here and there, but what's that in would give me trouble here and there, so I don't think he... In today's game is different, but back then, I think for him to back and it was more, I'm just gonna roll it, invite someone to go at the line to my forehand, I don't think he really cared too much about other non and I just thought that...

0:37:01.5 Brent Abel: But I mean, the guy could hit it, if he had to hit it, he could, but to me, the most elegant players are the guys who are consistently just like you've described, on balance, and I just... I felt Roger is number one in terms of that department, I thought Pete, in terms of certain Valley, unbelievable balance and just receiving the ball, not getting off balance in the Valley, and I was always disappointed once Roger decided, after winning a couple of things, serving involving and kinda going, Well, you know what kind of bored with this I can actually win by staying back, and I thought he did too much of it and kinda lost that confidence of... I mean, when he beat Sampras in what was at the quarters around the 16 and Wimbledon that year, when he first laid, came up with the year was.

0:37:59.5 Brent Abel: Is that when he crushed Him and He crushed at once...

0:38:01.9 Brent Abel: No, no.

0:38:03.5 Brent Abel: It was ESPN, he crushed him in the finals, it was... The first time they played was at Wimbledon, I wanna stay the... Around the 16, it was for sets, but you look at that match and Roger serving and following nine out of 10 points, and then he transitioned more to becoming a baseline guy, he starting from the baseline, and I thought... And he, he's aloe something that's always here to me, there was the match where he loses to Rafa five sets, a wild in the final, the light, it's getting me that... And people are saying, Oh, the greatest match in the history of the AM, and I'm going, I don't think it's the greatest match in the history of the game, you got two guys who are staying back at Wimbledon tennis, and one of the guys... I understand.

0:39:01.0 Brent Abel: I understand the Office gonna stay back, but Roger Federer, you gotta be kidding me. How can you be staying back on this guy when it wasn't that many years ago, maybe a couple of years before reserve, following 910 points, so

0:39:15.8 Brent Abel: They didn't... Went off topic. Yeah.

0:39:17.3 Jack Broudy: No, no, no, I get you. And that's one reason I do like Carlos Alcarez, when it's time to go to Nettie tennis backhand, and he saw he was just a little off is stretching just a little bit, he comes bombing into net and he must have been five feet away from the net from the baseline, you could almost touch the net, that's how quick he smelled that week, just a little weakness on the back and not much, boy, he really knows when to come in and he served involved quite a bit, and you're right, he really did use a lot of Shazam

0:39:51.6 Brent Abel: I guess my disappointment in the tournament was, even though the finals was pretty neat, not a lot of long points, and that's what I used to love with Roger and road joke a inch and Murray at the time, just... Every point was a highlight. Real and the Alcor is matched. They were going for such big shots that a lot of misses, a lot of unforced airs, a lot of winners, but I guess I kinda like the exchange, I guess that's what I really like so much, but you're right, it's a higher pace ball, maybe they'll get steadier as the years go on. Yeah.

0:40:31.3 Brent Abel: And it's like it's not an exact science. Center and Alcatraz played this great match in terms... A big, big court coverage. The point was incredible. Five. What was that? I don't know how many essences

0:40:43.9 Brent Abel: I'm just saying what, 2, 30 in the morning, something like that. But it doesn't mean that that's the formula for what you're gonna have to do, because every match is different, every time you play, the conditions are different, so I think... I'm getting back to your question about going back out and play it, I think that one of the things that I have to help my students and my players who ask me stuff about the game, what's the formula for... Still in the blank, and I just go, Man, look, there is no formula that it's not like you can do this one thing over and over and over and get the same result, and players too often are wanting the... What's the answer? What's the secret? What's the fine that the magic bullet... And I just go in there is none... You just... You gotta learn the fundamentals, you gotta understand yourself, you gotta understand your opponent, and mentally you gotta be tougher than you ever thought you could... He speak in a mental... This Carlos Alcor at to me, is not only is he mentally strong and tough, but he plays was so much freedom, almost like...

0:42:10.5 Brent Abel: I don't care. I mean, not really like I don't care at it, like a teleplay on the edge.

0:42:19.1 Brent Abel: He definitely plays on the edge, kind of like AAC used to the weight step up and just clock the ball. Yeah.

0:42:25.4 Brent Abel: So I guess what I'm saying is that the guy is what, 19 years old

0:42:29.5 Brent Abel: Now, You just turned...

0:42:30.8 Brent Abel: Just turned 19, and I really pray that he does not... A corporate America, corporate world doesn't come after this guy and take away that, 'cause that to me is where what happened, it would be all this corporate BS that would come after him and take away that... I'm not sure what you mean. Give me an example, I ingratiate when Yes opened a year ago, and to me, she was an unknown and she's playing with house money, she's no pressure that she went three rounds in the qualities, she gets into the main draw, and to me, there's just no pressure and she's just having a great time and then she wins the thing, and I just kind of felt like she got caught up, really No, she hasn't cracked an egg since really... He's really not done much. And I'm not saying that there was a correlation between the two, but I just have the sense that I hope that whatever Carlos naturally mentally does or maybe his team has helped him with, is that because you know that the big money is coming his way to a

0:43:47.3 Brent Abel: Earlier all be after Him.

0:43:50.6 Brent Abel: He's gonna be distracted, and I just hope that that enthusiasm that I see him play with, that freedom, that somehow that just got

0:44:00.3 Jack Broudy: That what she didn't happen to a dollar or better, they were sponsored by me, especially better... Nobody was sponsored by more companies than him, and he just kept learning... I remember in the beginning, he wouldn't hit a tennis drop shot and didn't like to hit the slices, and then he said, Well, I'm gonna have to work on my dropship 'cause I can't be... The Dollar I've been trying... So you kept learning and then the doll face, not fixed, but he improved to serve over the years, I thought quite a bit. He changed in it. I would look at his serve when he was 19 and 20, and then I looked at at 26, and he started taking a step with the right foot, which he never did when he was younger, so he was doing things... I could see it. So I don't know about that, but I don't know. For me, retconned, when I watched her play, I was sort of like that typical tennis woman, she had pretty good grounds, but I thought she was a little... I just, I hate to get technical whose bores my people, but... She's just too top heavy. I mean, all the women are just to to pull shoulders and use your shoulder, it's all upper body, I'm like, connect your core is closest to your core, it's not up here, this is closer, you might will hit the ball with your head because this is not your core up here, so I never really...

0:45:19.6 Brent Abel: When I watched rotating, she looks good, but she always looked off balance to me and I just thought she ain't Hannon, she ain't no dab in port, so I never really... And even Serena and her best played from her core, I didn't like the way she hitched and stopped and did some funky things, but I don't know, so I didn't really think that was it, but maybe you're right, maybe she just got caught up, like the one from Canada, what was that girl's name? The pretty girl to... Now you're talking about payback, not way back to 10 years ago. What was that? We're talking about... Yeah. He was a nice player, and she did really well, and then she faded away, now that might have been because she started modeling, she was a pretty girl. So Beauchard, Genie Beauchard, bus card.

0:46:06.2 Brent Abel: Yeah.

0:46:06.4 Brent Abel: 'cause she kinda had the same start as route, comment and talk about a funky game, I mean, she got to what? Five in the world. She didn't she get to a couple of few three, four semis of the majors, and you're right, then all of a sudden she's a great looking girl and shows five in the world, and all the big companies are coming after her, and I just think she probably got way too distracted. And my point is, I wanna see Carlos continue to play with this freedom. That is pretty rare.

0:46:44.4 Brent Abel: I think. And where he got it, I don't know, man. Can you teach that stuff, could you teach someone to have... He's for Spain.

0:46:55.2 Brent Abel: And so Rafa and I think he probably grew up in the shadow, thinking Roth is the greatest, that's who I wanna be like, I'm gonna be tougher than him, 'cause they're both from Spain, and that happens a lot when you get one person from a country and then all of a sudden, like Russian women, all of a sudden, after corner CO and a couple others, Sharapova, all of a sudden the world was flooded with Russian women tennis players. So I think that might be the situation with Al haras. It does feel like he's got that rate in him a little bit, but... Yeah, no, I'm looking forward. I think he and sinner are gonna be... Some people say to maybe, I just think he and center are the two best Young Guns... I've been saying this for a year, I just think they're the two best Young Guns, they've got good form. Team doesn't do it for me much. I like Sarah's back and you know me, I always pick and choose, like I love to agate grounds, but didn't like his volume, but I think center and Alcoa probably have the two complete games, from what I can see and...

0:48:00.2 Brent Abel: Well, we'll see, I think the next couple of... Two, three years is gonna be a lot of fun. Eagan...

0:48:07.3 Brent Abel: Well, I was just saying, we're gonna see... I think Rafa is pretty close to being done.

0:48:12.4 Brent Abel: I and Novak, we'll see. I mean, let this guy into these different countries, so that could be interesting, but let's not get to that, but... I know. Yeah, it's terrible. But you too, guy who'll do the guy who I think has got a shot at doing something big, it's just a kid from canals just... I saw him at Indian Wells, beat sits a pass in three, and

0:48:47.0 Brent Abel: You know the only thing I'm gonna ask you.

0:48:49.2 Brent Abel: And I'm glad you brought him up, 'cause he and Al Hares and a lot of these guys, they're doing this weird stuff... Right, they're starting on their serve and instead of what we were taught, come back and hear and out, they're all coming down. And then back up to the front again, and Felix is a big example of that. And so, as Alcorn.

0:49:11.2 Brent Abel: What do you think about that? 'cause to me, it looks a little cocky or as backwards or something, I'm not quite like, and ROTC, but actually rois in some ways look better to me, I don't... I just don't really relate to not having that base that baseball throw. What do you think about that? Well, I think they come out of it.

0:49:31.5 Brent Abel: I don't know. Again, we either at one point, but they do it backwards instead of coming around in a full... So

0:49:42.3 Brent Abel: I'm really kind of wide open. I'm wide open to technique, it actually... I've either never tried and I like to go out in the court from time to time and try different things, I see them do and see what it feels like, and again, I'm not saying that... I'm not saying that it's right, that eventually they won't morph into something else, just like you say with Rafa, he's changed technique for time on this guy as they're so good, I think they have the luxury of making little tweaks here and there and try different things and just seeing how it works, and it could be that for whatever reason, I'm not saying this is the thing, but with their serve with that motion, it might bring them into the court slightly differently than something else they've tried. Do they get an extra 10 miles per hour on it, probably not, but does it help them come out of their service motion in such a way that they're 10% better on balance, meaning that visually that they pick up the return faster... I'm just talking off the top of my head, I have no idea. But

0:50:54.4 Brent Abel: You've noticed that, you've noticed that the serve motions are absolutely different and almost strange to me almost... I think we'd have to go talk to that player, you have to go talk to their coach... I would have to say, Well, why did you do this? And see, is there a before and after, did they do the old school style to start what they were taught as a junior, I wonder... To me, it's less about the aesthetics and it's more about What is it helping this player do that even though to us it looks differently, it might be uniquely helping that individual get better at something, and again, you know as well as I do, I mean, balance. If you don't have balance, then you don't see the ball clearly, you just don't... I even think balance is kind of under-played when I talk balance, I don't just talk right left, I talk vertical up and down, like I said, When one shoulder is up, the other one should be... It's a system of polarities tennis, right? You don't want things level or you're like Patrick Rafter, right? He had to retire at 26, 'cause if his shoulder, 'cause he had such a big served, he came into it like this, where everyone else comes into it like this...

0:52:18.1 Brent Abel: And of course, that's a lot. He's better on your body. Hang this same thing, she never could hit a big service, she would go down together up together like we were all taught, but most of the great athletes, they figured it out, they wanna be a little more like Cupid and that straight across shoulder thing. Yeah, but when you mentioned Felix, that's the first thing. 'cause when I saw him live, I like the way he played. He was tough, he hit a great, his grounds were great, but I just... He was the first one that I said I was in a box right next to him and go, What the hell is with that sermon, he's a... He's not going the right direction. And then I started seeing all these other players starting to do at a US Open more than ever to you setting there. And whether it's just kind of a fad, I wouldn't be surprised if it is. And maybe two years down the road, these guys to have somehow morphed into something slightly different, I just think... I mean, for us, in terms of our perspective, having been in the game for so long, that we get to be able to see this stuff where a lot of average players just haven't had enough time in the game to be able to really pick that up and see that, Wow, there's really a difference here, and then be curious, is there going to be a little minute change to that over the next couple of years? And let's see what happens.

0:53:43.9 Brent Abel: Yeah, and let me ask you two or three pointed questions before I let you go and I appreciate it, it's a great catching up. I know we've really... We never played ball together, we never even got together face-to-face, but I know 20 years ago, we used to talk... I used to send your product, do you tell me what you thought and how you use the A-board with the other product? And that's about it. We mostly had a business relationship, but it is nice to actually getting... To see and talk to you again after all these years. But I think the questions people would wanna know mostly 'cause I wanna know them... What about dubs, when you play these senior tournaments, do you play dubstep dubs to or

0:54:24.0 Brent Abel: Screw it, just play singles because you're gonna need all the energy you can get, and you don't wanna kill yourself, or do you just play dumb sometimes, I mean... How do you rate imply both events.

0:54:37.5 Brent Abel: You play both every time I was like, I just like... I do, I just, I love doubles. I just absolutely love double. You grew up, I didn't play a lot of tennis growing up as a kid, even though I grew up as a member of the Brooklyn tennis club, baseball was my true love, and so I played a ton of baseball and play a little bit of tennis, so I love the whole team thing about doubles, and I just like to movement double, so I just... Serially, I just...

0:55:08.4 Brent Abel: Well, in the return and the team work, and I just kinda like that. It's more of... It's just more fun for me. I love playing singles, but it's more work and it's more thinking for me, it's more mental toughness for me to use doubles Uno... No, I'm saying in single... Some sameness at the same time. It does, there's a lot of ebbs and flows and doubles that if you don't allow them to happen because you're so anxious mentally, you're just... You bring too much anxiety, you don't allow those ebbs and flows to happen naturally, and so I play both, and I always think too that it's always a great experience. I'm always learning something. Every time. Every insisting. Yeah.

0:56:07.2 Brent Abel: I guess another question I would have is the SERVE, is it more important to protect your body and get as many serves in as possible, are you still young and dumb and try and blast that, want to try to hit a big winner and then go... I'll kick the second one, now I know kicks are tougher 'cause as I get older, I don't really like... I used to love tossing way over my head, having a big kick, especially of course, on the ad corridor, down the T and O, the Duce, but I noticed about 10 years ago, the kid just didn't feel quite as nice as it did when I was young, so what's your approach on the SERVE... Just slice them in or a high first serve percentage, like 80%. Yeah, I mean, the bottom line is, I don't wanna have to do ensure, just like you said, I can't generate as much racket speed as I used to on that second serve, and so relatively speaking, the serve speed has diminished more than the guy's ability over there to do some damage with a return, so maybe that you don't want it to throw in a steady Guide to second service to anybody, but I...

0:57:19.2 Brent Abel: Estates, peccary, the top guys. And a lot of that is just confidence, it's like if I'm filling in second serves a lot of the top guys, not only do I have less confidence on the outcome of that point, but during the point... Because I've started with a little bit of anxiety. You don't immediately get rid of the anxiety during the point. So for me, I like to... I used to serve Valley 100% of the time.

0:57:55.3 Brent Abel: When you're from the 60s, like I had... So I would do that 10% of the time until I got into the 60s.

0:58:02.0 Brent Abel: And what I found in the 60s is, Okay, I'm losing a little MPH on the first serve, I've lost a little bit in terms of speed coming in, so I gotta start to develop, not more of, but somewhat of a baseline game in case I need it. So my next Now Jack is probably, I'd say 40% serving Valley on the first serve, 5% on the freedoms all the time though.

0:58:31.1 Brent Abel: Right? Operate time on second server time, but I'm going, I'm serving more to their body than ever before in terms of... I've got to mix a little bit out wide a little bit to the T to keep... Spathe reality is, is that... Is that as we age up, even a 75% to 80%, spin first serve to the body, physically, the guys just don't get out of the way of that is A... And so whether I serve the valet that or whether I serve and stay back and serve and stay back for me is not literally serve and jump backwards behind the baseline, it's serving, ending up two feet inside the baseline, knowing that no one's gonna consistently crush whatever I serve back Back on My Feet, and even if it's a deep one, I don't mind if I've taken them out wide and they crush a deep... To me, I'm happy to step forward to play a little transitional Valley without letting it bounce, but I'm serving way more to the body than ever before, and trying to get that... If you go 90% first serves in, it's pretty weak. I mean, you're just not bringing in enough...

0:59:51.4 Brent Abel: I don't mind.

0:59:54.1 Brent Abel: 70, 30, 70% first serve. That's what my question. So 70, so you're about 70% on a good day. I would say so. And look, my second serves, not horrible, I can go ahead and throw it up to the back end, and I'm not looking for a kick, I'm looking for a high bounce, I just wanted to get it out of their strike zone, and typically over the back end, seems to work. And how about the dropper? As it used a ton. You think it might be a ton. It is used the tone that area, I'm not sure I wanna do this 'cause I'm like, You know, I really like to hit the ball, one of my biggest pleasures of coaching and foreman and Sam and all those guys, and today and Tom, I get to hit with them, and I love to hit with those guys, to me, that's just the beauty, especially at my age, still be able to just feel young and feel like I'm like a burn flying out there and it all feels good.

1:00:50.7 Brent Abel: Yeah, drop shots just start to piss me off as I get older, I'm like, so not really... I gotta deal with a lot of that drinking and stuff, and that's what I would have bought a lot of these. A lot of communal grips, a lot of... I wouldn't label it as pushing and I wouldn't label it is drinking, I would label it as disguised, so disguise is... And I love it when I hit two or three cross-court back in under spend drives, not hackathon, and the fourth one is true, looks like another one's coming, and then you pull the trigger and to dropper, and I don't feel like a pusher, I don't feel like I'm drinking, I don't feel like I'm slicing a disinterested the mens...

1:01:44.0 Brent Abel: You wouldn't do that in the men's open nearly as much though you don't want to invite somebody into that and challenge their speed.

1:01:50.8 Brent Abel: Yeah, but if I resize it, if I've disguised it... You're darn right, I would. Yeah, and disguise is the key, because you can do the reverse discuss, you can make it look like a little active... Well, here comes a dropper and then you slide it dig, and what happens is, if you show it, enough of those in the first half of the first set against an unknown opponent, someone who doesn't know you, they realize not only do I have to cover the dropper, but this guy can bring... This guy can bring the drive to the baseline, so what do I do? Well, they're more concerned with covering the Drop shot, so they start to play in close, and every time someone plays either inside the base liner on top of it, and you can drive it deep, it's just a tougher ball form. So I think if you let someone... You an opponent believe that there's no threat of a drop shot, then they're gonna be comfortable back there, they're to sit back and whatever it is, they're... So you want them second guessing a little bit, I wanna create that anxiety in them that they don't know what's coming.

1:03:05.0 Brent Abel: Yeah, once you do that, then a lot of the times you see a couple of... You play a couple of drop shots and they go, Oh man, I can't give the guy a ball he can drop on, so now they try to hit it bigger and he... To this, they start to miss a couple, so just by the threat of a dropper, they start to go bigger and you start to get some on four stairs at them. Alright, well, you know, I guess the Latino saying, Jack, you can't go out there and smooth away a bunch of good-looking ground is... Yeah, I'm not saying you can't do that, but you might not be a big winner.

1:03:40.9 Brent Abel: Is what you're saying.

1:03:43.0 Brent Abel: I'm just saying, it gets harder to compete like that when you're trying to move guys to it from side to side, it just... And look, if you're that good at the ground is you're going to produce a lot of short balls, and then you got it on a t-shirt, all... I know you're not gonna hit a ball in a retreat, you're gonna hit a band, come in and say, pass me. Let's see what you got. Right.

1:04:09.1 Brent Abel: Right. I'm still, I'm shrinking, but I'm still about six foot still, so I got a wing span, you're about my size. Right, about 600. No, I've actually... I probably lost about an inch over the last... Now, 10 or 15 years, I was 510 at one point. I go in now, from my annual physical, I just go and stand as tall as you can because I don't want them to say, No, now you're five I and the quarter. So I was six and three quarters, and now I'm 511 and three quarters, it's really annoying. It was substrate, you gotta keep stretching, you gotta really spend a lot of...

1:04:42.0 Brent Abel: Don't.

1:04:43.1 Brent Abel: I did about three months ago, I joined the gym finally, and it really has helped, they go twice a week and really... 'cause my wife was saying, you know how your arms used to be bigger and... That was enough for me right there, and I said, Okay, that's it. That's a... No, yeah. And so being an old dude, I get in for free anyway, so I joined a club and I started pumping, are told me my arms are back, so I'm feeling better, but... Yeah.

1:05:10.8 Brent Abel: If you don't use it, you really do lose it.

1:05:13.2 Brent Abel: That's why... That's...

1:05:14.2 Brent Abel: Why are you still using your aboard? I don't have an abort anymore, I would know unless I've got it in storage... Now look.

1:05:24.5 Brent Abel: I'm living in storage. So I know what you mean, yeah, yeah. We sold our place two years ago, so everything's been storage for a couple of years.

1:05:32.3 Brent Abel: The same with us two years ago, we sold right in the middle of covid, and then we moved out here, and then we're in the middle of framing our house...

1:05:39.7 Brent Abel: That's great.

1:05:40.4 Brent Abel: That's great. So no, I don't have an port, but

1:05:47.4 Brent Abel: I've always thought that you were very innovative in terms of realizing that one of the great Technics, as you say, is a lower body is core, and how to use that, how to teach it, how to give someone a feeling of what it's like. And so, yeah, no, I think the airport was a... Have to get a couple of swivels under your feet here, no matter what, even if I ate a bath on and I don't care 'cause you need them, I think it'd be good for you, and I think you go enjoy the new ones are way better than the old board, of course, 20 years. And their individual in New South, Avesta makes sense. Yeah, 'cause I got enough complaints over 20 years old, I'm six foot four, I need a wider... My child is only three foot tall, narrow, so yeah, we just decided to figure out a way to make swipes, they don't slide around and they work better and all that... Are you making any golfers using your swivels, we saw that not only do we sell a ton to golfers, I sold... Retief gusen bought it. Scott Simpson bought a board, we...

1:06:57.8 Brent Abel: A lot of pros, a lot of teaching pros, but we also sold over 5000 boards to physical therapy companies, they use them for hip replacements, people that have problems with their ankles, that's why I wanna get a couple under your features 'cause we're POS... I know it's good for you. I know it's good. That's great. In fact, they even use in an occupational therapy, like this guy in Miami who works on nothing but older people, dementia patients, he gets them on the board and he says it's very good for the right left brain coordination to swivel to both sides equally. He says, Oh yeah, he bought 50 and he sells them to his clients, I bought more than that, but as a... Yes, it's really interesting where the board went, but golf certainly was our second biggest sport, and baseball, the Miami Heat and basketball, they bought him and the Padres bottom. So yeah, we kind of look, you know, as well as I do that most sports, most sports are hip trio, they say it's all on the hips, and it's still pretty true today, that old cliche. So baseball, any swinging sport, any throwing sport, if you're gonna do it efficiently, I think it's gotta be driven from the core, and then sort of like a double conic, right, the court goes in and it's tight and has a little figure it and it goes out to the arms and goes to the legs as well, like even soccer players would buy boards from us and they said, Oh yeah, you kicked the ball at the 45-degree angle, so it was a really interesting couple of decades, I have to say.

1:08:36.1 Brent Abel: Good for the kind of trouble we got into with that board... What's that testing? It was an interesting 20 years, you know, and the board took us places we really never dreamed of, I just thought it was great, like a... The way he had his figure eight, I just thought, Well, this makes sense, but then all these things that I don't know much about occupational therapy, physical therapy, heck, even the guys that did crew, they said, Oh yeah, we have the same motion in our hips when we row, we do crew. I sold it to some crew team, so it was really kind of interesting, bizarre, the figure I and the hips took me. But yeah, no, I definitely encourage you, after we get off this call, I'll come up with a sweet bro deal for you because you really ought to have some board of... Thank you. I think you'd like it.

1:09:29.3 Brent Abel: Okay, anyway, hey, you know what, I've taken enough of your time, I really enjoyed it. It's so good to talk to you again. I think we might have to do this again, maybe during one of the big tournaments... Yeah, and look, the same offer I make to some of the other online tennis guys or even a club pro, if there's ever one specific question or one thing you wanna talk about, a very specific conversation might take 10, 12, 15 minutes. Hit me up, I'm more than happy to do that as

1:10:00.0 Brent Abel: Well. I'm really happy to hear that because I would like to be able to do that today. I was sort of just a re-acquaintance day, we hadn't talked in 20 years, or even texted or emailed much, but we did quite a bit when I was very, very prepared for the Jack but Brody to ask me about Pickle ball, and I know... And people are getting to know what I think about pick a Ballou, know Sam query just decided to go on the harbor to... I don't know, my common thing is tennis, and you probably know this better than anyone in the world, but tennis has the big age factor, humiliation, when you step on the court, I don't care how good you are, you always have that big age factor, you could possibly be humiliated, and you put your heart on the line, every time you say, I don't care if you're a 25 or a TR1, you always put your heart on the line... I pick Le off, to me is for quitter. You don't wanna put your heart on the line anymore, I play pick a book 'cause the brackets so close, you're not gonna choke, there's no choking and pickle ball like there is in tennis, there's not even an overhand serve.

1:11:20.0 Brent Abel: So to me, that's why I played a few games over it with Dawson over down in Bobby Riggs, which has become a huge picea place in San Diego. I played a few games and I actually won the three games I played, playing all these experience guys, and it was okay, it was fun. I really would prefer it with a beer or shot a bourbon in my hand, because it was a little silly to me, kind of like playing smash ball on the beach. So for me, man, I'm not a pickle all guys... That's not beautiful. It's not beautiful to watch. I love watching Roger, like we talked about earlier. I could watch him like I watched the waves roll in, I like to watch that kind of performance. Pickerel isn't that. So I don't know.

1:12:07.9 Brent Abel: Why are you playing it now? No, my wife is very good. And she's also a very good tennis player too, she's a

1:12:20.1 Brent Abel: Women's five... Oh, I have one I play on video here and there.

1:12:24.5 Brent Abel: Yeah, yeah, so we've won six national husband like titles over the years.

1:12:29.6 Brent Abel: So

1:12:29.8 Brent Abel: She's very good. And she lost pickled. She loves it. For all the reasons that I think is attracting a lot of people to pick Leal, which is... It's very easy to pick up. It's very social. It seems as like if you were to take... Let's say that you go downtown and you and your wife or to go out to dinner and you're not quite sure where you're gonna go, and there's two restaurants side by side, and one of them has got a line out the door, and you're thinking... And the other one you like... There's no one in there. Right, and you're thinking, Well, where do we wanna go? Well, this place must be kind of good, so someone who's new to either sport is gonna look at pickle ball and just kinda go... That's what I wanna do. Now, look, we all know that it's helping, it's helping people get off the couch that maybe either have been injured in tennis for whatever reason, has been tough on their body and they just can't play, so I think there is some benefit and it's getting people off the couch, people are getting, I think more exercise now has a ball inside coto me, it's

1:13:56.6 Brent Abel: No... I had to go ahead.

1:13:57.4 Brent Abel: Well, I think the challenge for tennis right now, and I see this now, like over to Steve beaten center stage Tennis Center, which is now really morphed into the steam boat pickle ball center, is that if we don't figure out how to help relatively new players to the game or people that are playing who are still kind of beginners, maybe I've been playing for a couple of years. If we don't help them figure out how to have more fun on the court, now more fun on the court could be something as simple as... I don't know, there's music or there's something going on. I think the tithe, Green Dot balls help. That to me is like the thing. So I only play with a green dot ball here at 7000 feet, I don't play with a regular tennis ball, you don't... No, I only play with the Green Dot, and I'm a decent player, Jack, I'm not that bad a player and I... You play with the Green Dot, and I find that playing with a green God at 7000 feet is way more fun, fun than playing with a regular... Even a high altitude regular tennis ball, but...

1:15:20.5 Brent Abel: Why is it more fun? The rallies are longer, we spend more to... We get better exercise. I think... But let me get back to... Let me get back to what I think the challenge is for the tennis teaching industry, I think that we have under-achieved underperformed in terms of how do we teach the game that is the players can actually have more fun, the Green Dot ball, your suggestion is a great way to do that, so that they can actually sustain a rally, and whether it's with the Green Dot, whether it's with technique, simplifying technique, more and more and more to where employers are kind of what can you... Tennis, and they're looking at Cecil and they're going, That pickle ball looks way more fun. And I think if the tennis industry doesn't figure that out how to help tens players have more fun, it's gonna be tough, it's...

1:16:29.6 Brent Abel: It has been tough. You see what happens in San Diego have been getting in territory fights, it's almost like surfers, man, they're fighting over courts now, I mean, they're big big bru ha has down in San Diego. I know that for a fact, 'cause a lot of my friends are crossed down there, and I was there for quiet... Like I said, Bobby Rescue has seven courts, they turned five into pickle ball is only two courts left and a bobbin, why would they take five or the seven Terminator them in the pickle ball courts because they can't get enough... I mean, there's just... I went over there one day and he said, I'll come over and play and I did. I must add over 100 people. For starters, it's cheap. Five bucks for three hours. I mean, that's cheap. You can't get that kind of entertainment really anywhere else, and you don't play all the time, like you say... It's very social, right? You play a couple of games, then you sit out, then you play again. And I will say one thing. It's easy on your body. I remember when I played, I could barely feel anything on my arm.

1:17:35.5 Brent Abel: I think in terms of a business model, I mean, you're maximizing the real estate by four, right. On its Bobby Riggs club takes five out of the seven. I mean, he's just at the income like crazy, so I do think one of the channel... I think there's two challenges. Number one, I think the pickle ball industry has got to figure out how do we lessen the sound of a visit... How do you do that? Right, and look, it's gotta be possible, the old cliche, well, we can send a man on the moon, alright, we gotta be able to figure this out because if you don't... Trying to marry these two sports in the same venue is really, really tough. Mission Hills in the desert where we are in the winter, pickle all has become very popular, and they had this one area of the tennis courts, which were kind of like the last two or three courts, and there was discussion about when we wanna move the pickle ball right next to where the 10 grass courts are, and I just went, Guys, look, I understand the pickle ball things coming, that's great, but do not put them by the grass tennis courts leave the more you've got them.

1:18:57.9 Brent Abel: And they eventually did that, they left where they were, but there's a lot of real estate around now where Pickle is a good friend of mine said, we had to sell our place, we just couldn't insisted, so you gotta solve the noise, number one. And number two, I think that if you don't solve the noise, then you have to separate the two sports, you... Kalyan, how we do that? That's gonna be tough because the cost of real estate, I'm sure at the Bobby Riggs tennis club doesn't allow... The surrounding real estate doesn't allow, Well, let's go buy an acre or two over there for 20 million, and so I make a business out of pickle all, it's not gonna write. Interesting, and no, I wasn't gonna ask you about picea, but it was interesting that you went there... Yeah, I... Under the pot a little bit. I'm a pure is just like you, but I'm also glad to see that something is getting a lot of humans off the couch, our doors, and look, I know that Pickle all doesn't provide the same athletic experience... Fitness, exertion, the tennis does, but maybe what it does is it provides enough exercise that someone goes, you know what, this feels pretty good, I'm gonna go ahead and get in to Jim now, maybe I'll eat a lot.

1:20:31.3 Brent Abel: Malta a little better. We all eat a little bit better and... Well, you know, it's funny, my wife doesn't play any sports... Right. Not tennis or pickle ball. She's a Calgary, alright. She's from My homing, so she ortho and skis and whatnot, love it, but when she went over with me to Bobby Riggs at time, just she wanted to see... She had heard all about pickle all, this was a few years ago. She said, You know what this looks like to me, 'cause

1:20:58.1 Brent Abel: She saw the old offers, it wasn't like Martin, Barbara, any of the good players were out there playing, it was just... I guess you compared to 25, she said to me, this looks... Reminds me of shuffle board, she says it's like the new shuffle board gets you outside. You're kind of moving, kind of not... 'cause we watch doubles and they weren't kind of standing in one place, and she said, Yeah, she says, it just gets you outside, and for people that are over 60, year, over 70, and they just don't get out, it puts you in the sunshine, she said, but to me, it looks like the new... It looks like the new shuffle board, and I thought, Well, that's an interesting take for a non-tennis player, but anyway... Well, I'll tell you what, when we do get together, which I'd love to do, you, 'cause you and I are just down a couple of hours down the road now, so maybe if you ever make it towards West Denver or you're in steam boat, so if I ever get up that way, which I will, I'd love to hit some... Not pickle ball, but I'd love to hit some tennis balls with you.

1:22:00.8 Brent Abel: And if you play guitar, I'll play guitar with you like that, that I took... I'm trying to work on my golf swing a little bit, but we'll get out and hit some tennis balls, well, use the grey dot up here, and I think what you'll find is that... Wow, I've never used it. So funny, I'll try it. I mean, try it, Jack, and you know why I go back to the desert at sea level, I don't miss a bed, it's not like... Is the same feeling being in the desert up here, it's the same kind of thing and... Wow, interesting. Well, yeah, like I said, I can think of way more things to talk about, but we both have to get on, so let John... But thanks a lot, I'll be in touch anyway because... Yeah, I wanna... Because you're just down

1:22:46.5 Brent Abel: The road for me, so we could actually feasibly place in ball and... Yeah, I would like to do this again. So we listen, I appreciate you thinking about me. Thanks for having me on and I love doing this stuff, so hopefully, sometimes then again... You got it, right. Jackets, a lot, I really enjoyed. I have a great day. Alright, thank you. You too soone.

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