Matthew Pallamary: Going Deep Into The Figure 8

March 9, 2023
Written By: Jack Broudy
Matthew Pallamary: Going Deep Into The Figure 8

0:00:00.3 Jack Broudy: Good morning. All you figure 8 lovers? Tennis nuts out there. This is Jack Broudy, and I'm living at the 45 today with my long-time friend, Matt Pallamary, and Matt is... Boy, he is a special person, he's an author by trade, but he's more than that, he frequently visits the mountain mountains, deserts and jungles of North, South and Central America, studying Shamanism. He's on his quest, he has 18 books in print in multiple genres. His book, The Infinity zone is where we first met. He does an in-depth analysis of the figure eight Dynamics, and this book took first place in the international book awards and has the winner of a San Diego book award, his latest book, holographic cosmic man as a mouthful, is an expanded version of the Infinity zone. So I am so delighted today to be talking to my friend Matt, it's so great to see we've lost a little bit of touch, but... Well, except for on social media, but that's not gonna happen again. Is it now? We're connected at the hip, bro. Good deal. Good deal. Well, say hi to everybody out there 'cause we'll get started, 'cause most of the people that follow me now, I'm into this different kind of thinking, thinking more along the laws of nature, like the figure 8, the 45 degree angle counter balance, as opposed to just regular old balance and Matt, maybe tell them a little bit more than I did about your background, especially when it's regards to the figure.

0:01:46.1 Matt Pallamary: So I've been studying Shamanism all of my life really, and it underlies all of my writing, and I spent a lot of time in the Peruvian Amazon working with plant medicines, and I always like to say that everything I ever learned about sacred geometry, I learned from my Ayahuasca client experiences, and I connected with a very good friend of mine, a professor Scott also, he's a Professor of Comparative Religion, and he's a big Sacred Geometry person. So I got the whole initial download for the Infinity one when I was in the jungle during those extended plant diets, and I actually wrote a paper called a theory of the evolution of consciousness, which was the basis for the infinity zone. So then when I started getting into the figure at and studying how powerful it is, then I started... It's like anything. You buy a new car. I bought a new Prius years ago, and then all of a sudden I saw preis is everywhere. Right, right. So I got deep into the figure it and realize how effective it was, and the first book was called the Infinity one, because right in the middle of the figure, it is really where the power is.

0:03:05.5 Matt Pallamary: And when you follow the whole pattern of it, you see it's everywhere, especially in tennis, but baseball, pictures, fly fisherman, Marshall arts, it's everywhere, and it's the most effective, most powerful form of movement. Perfect form and motion. I like to think of it that way.

0:03:27.4 Jack Broudy: Yeah, you know, I use it as well. You know, my whole system, tennis system as sports system is based on understanding the underlying principles of all great athletes, all natural athletes, and the figure, it certainly is at the core of all of that movement before we break into more specifics, the origin came to you while you were actually in the jungle and not doing math.

0:03:55.9 Matt Pallamary: Yeah, it's interesting. Do the visions that I had. I always like to say I learned everything that way, then I went and read all the books afterward, and my friend, professor also that I just mentioned, he gave me a whole list of books, and of course I went out and bought all of them and run a mile cover to cover and became quite authoritative on it, and once you start to see it, I mentioned you see it everywhere.

0:04:24.3 Jack Broudy: Oh yeah, I see the same thing with regards to that, like the 45-degree angle, once you realize, Oh, microscope, everything, you turn to a release of a baseball when a pitcher throws the ball at the 45, the way an archer or a riflemen anyone, a sharp shooter lines up is at the 45 degree angle, the golf balls put at the 45 degree angle when you're driving... So I hear you. It all happened to me. What about the same time? I'm talking for me about 25 years ago, and for you shortly after that, I kind of remember that. Yeah.

0:05:00.2 Matt Pallamary: Maybe maybe 15 years ago for me. Maybe closer to 20.

0:05:06.8 Jack Broudy: You came into the scene quite early when you guys were right in that book, and I was even a little part of it, I think I got a couple of chapters in there, didn't I...

0:05:15.7 Matt Pallamary: You're in there, you are a rock star or... You're definitely part of it.

0:05:20.8 Jack Broudy: Yeah, I do remember submitting a couple of... A couple of words. You know, it's funny, that's... For me, the whole thing, when I started looking into it, and I probably read a lot of the books you read, about mazes and mistakes and all that stuff, I realized it went all the way back to stream theory. I mean, if you look at that stream theory, it's absolutely a continuous figure eight.

0:05:52.7 Matt Pallamary: It actually even goes back to pre-historic like ancient Egypt, but without getting a track too much, I'm interested... Well, my new book, holographic cosmic man, I made up that word, and it's based on the temple of Anthropocene, which is in Luxor, Egypt, and it's a very precise mathematical map of the human body, and it's full of... The basis of all of it comes from the golden mean and the Golden otter, the obsolete-ly, the golden mean you by 1618. And for me, particularly with the figure at and the work that you're doing with it, to me, it branches a broached and branches and Roches, both Physics and Geometry. It's one of the things that really ties it hand-in-hand, and much of the work I do in this field is based on the work of Rudolf Steiner. Steiner was a person, he was sort of always tried to connect the spiritual with the psychological, as did Carl Young that was called you in this big contribution is connecting the two. In that Temple of Man, every arch, every piece of art work, everything within it is very precise, and they said that it's a map of the cosmos and the human body, and that the human body is actually a microcosm of the Maroons, the bigger picture.

0:07:30.2 Matt Pallamary: So that fascinated me, and when I found out about it, I just got totally into it, and then the Big Book Temple of Man, they're actually two huge volumes, he was a Frenchman by the name of swallow de Luis, and he spent 15 years doing a complete analysis of that temple and all of the geometry that it contains, and then like I mentioned a little bit ago, once you see it in one place, you see it everywhere. Oh

0:07:56.6 Jack Broudy: Yeah, oh yeah, absolutely. Time, go ahead. We talk a lot about contrary motion and counter-balance, and I try to explain to people, I was wondering if I have something here. I'll dig into a tennis bag, see if I get lucky enough to find a tense for, but just not to get too cocky on you.

0:08:25.2 Matt Pallamary: Okay, I'm a rock at heartaches.

0:08:35.4 Jack Broudy: There's a couple of ways to look at it. And the sports that is... And most people see sports as a linear thing, they use linear words, low meaning put all your weight down on something without really any regards to the laws of nature science, you know where you have to have equal and opposite movements when you have weight in your back leg here and you're down, then something has to be up and representing the left side of your body for counter-balance, and I like to show people this drill with this tennis ball and see how you relate to this in your studies. Most people think that you throw a ball like this and you throw it from hand to hand, and as you do your whole body, the whole side of your body switches and goes towards that target. But what we talk about, at least in Brody tennis system, is we talk about opposites, meaning when my hips go one way, my hands go the other, so a different way of throwing it, right, you can do this. And I would call this very off-balance and not easy, not effortless, or you can do the opposite, which is always have counter balance, and that's what some of the beautiful players do, like a Roger fetter, he was my favorite really, because you always saw this easy balance you had...

0:10:03.4 Jack Broudy: And you didn't see this dramatic over effort, over work, and I always thought he lived into the principles that at least I talk about. And I would love to hear your take on that. For sure. Yeah.

0:10:18.1 Matt Pallamary: I'm gonna back out a little bit with it and bring it on and so to speak. Sounds great. So I studied martial arts for a number of years, a martial arts punch, you have a stance horse dance, you're grounded, and then you start by turning your hips, and then you extend as you're turning your hips, it extends into your arm, and then you twist your arm and did the punch? So you're actually coming from the ground using your whole body, and then your arm is literally like cracking a whip, so all of the power from the ground up through your whole body and everything comes out into your two knuckles, and that's where the energy is focused and that's where the power is. So if you study sports tennis more than anything, but equally is across the board, you'll find that the greatest players always are using the figure it, whether they're conscious of it or not. So if you watch a baseball picture the line-up in the pitch, it's just a variation on the martial arts punch, and you wanna get the maximum effectiveness and power and control by using that. The other example they always love to give is if you take a pendulum and swing it, people think that on one extreme is power, but that's not the case.

0:11:48.6 Matt Pallamary: When you get to the end of that swing the furthest out, you have a moment when it switches direction, but it's actually a moment... Terribly weightless. Because there's no power there. And then when you come down, right in the middle is where the maximum power is, until you go back up the other way, and the further you go up the other direction, it diminishes until you get to that point of no more power and comes back the other way so it's that swing back and forth, that's where the power is and where we do it unconsciously, but when we're aware of it and we're conscious of it, like in your tenant system, it brings the maximum effectiveness and when you realize not only is your body doing the figure at from maximum power, Roger Federer, like you mentioned, you also with your opponent at the other end of the court, rallying to them, and then Bolinas also a figure it...

0:12:46.5 Jack Broudy: We sure 'cause the ball rises and falls, it is also... And that's how we say your time, your emotions in your hips is you time it with the movement of the ball. Exactly.

0:13:00.4 Matt Pallamary: And you're also subconsciously or consciously aware of all your opponent's moves, because if you can, you wanna spike them and you wanna get ahead of the game, if you can hit it, or you wanna hit a winner, right, so you wanna do that back and forth and then you think about the figure and in the body and the figure of being on the court with your opponent, that's a whole another sort of microcosm within the microcosm, and that's one of the reasons why I titled the book the Infinity one, because it's infinite moment and it's everywhere. When animals run, you watch the gate of like a cheater running, when Host scalp, when dogs run, it's a figure it... There are all the examples in sports, in Animal Kingdom.

0:13:49.3 Jack Broudy: Well, sports and as you say in the spiritual world too, talking about Rudolf Steiner, didn't he always say night goes in to day, day goes in tonight, it's all very non-linear. You can't define, Oh, it's night. It's dark now, it goes gradually. As does Infinity, it's right.

0:14:07.0 Matt Pallamary: And it's all about power. And one of the definitions of Shamanism as the power path and to seek true power, you wanna go for the middle... There's a great American Indian saying, it applies to politics too, and all that... Does the right wing and the left wing, but they both belong to the same bird, and I always like to say if you go far enough right, you're gonna end up left, and if you go far enough left, you're gonna end up right.

0:14:38.7 Jack Broudy: I get it. 'cause it's the infinite.

0:14:41.4 Matt Pallamary: Yeah, yeah, and the power of the infinite is right in the middle of that figure A, which is what is what I call the infinity zone, I also call it, among other things, effortless mastery. And aside from being a Marsalis, I'm a drummer, I've been a drummer all of my life, Oh, I wish you were out here in Denver, I need a drummer. Real bad, man. One of the last things I kept... I still got my whole drum set in the closet, and I still play hand drums, but the whole thing about drumming, to do the best stroke of a drumstick is that whole figure a snap, and each time you're doing figure eights back and forth back and forth back and forth, it's where the power is, and when you get that snap at the end of it, that's where you get the most effective control in the stroke of the runestones, much music right in a guitar string moves in a figure eight, and even when a violin is being played right properly, they don't go up and back.

0:15:48.3 Jack Broudy: They have... Yeah, there's a rounding of the corner, so to speak.

0:15:51.9 Matt Pallamary: That's right, and that's where the effectiveness and that's who the balances and also in Shamanism, when you're going for the center, if you think about a hurricane, what happens in the eye of the storm? Nothing. Yeah, so when you're working on yourself and doing your inner work, you're looking for that center, because when you're at the center, you have the greatest view of everything, you're not on one extreme or the other, you're not out there at the winds who they're crazy or the auto part of it, where they're going a million miles an hour, you're really going for the center, and once you're in the center, you can see the whole thing. I have another little revelation when I was thinking about doing the show with your hair, if you take 45 and you break it... It takes 845 to make a 360. And a 360 is full circle. In Esoteric terms and shamans and the circle is everywhere. Particularly in American Indian and South American cultures, Indigenous cultures. Circle is a big deal. And then you think about the piranha, is it two circles connect together, right?

0:17:07.4 Jack Broudy: The goal, I mean, you just... That's it. It's just a... Basically, you take some kind of a rubber band and you just twist it and there's your figure eight, but in both cases, it's infinite right here, where does the a stop and the same with the circle. When does it stop? It never does. That's right, that's right. Well, we have a slightly different take, even though the power is in your center, and I'd love to hear your take on this because this... And this just occurred to me now, because for starters, I don't say the ground up, not to disagree, it feels to me like the ground up when you're playing good tennis, but that's because it's more of a double conic, meaning the core of your body, your center of gravity is... You're daunting your eyes when your hips move, it tugs at your feet, and I believe it makes you... It feels like your feet doing the work, but that's only because it's being tugged by the hips, so it's sort of a double conic, the hips move up into the arm and it also moves down into the legs. So that's the way we think of it here.

0:18:17.9 Jack Broudy: And then the other thing is, it's not so much we crack the whip on every ball, but we create a sine wave, a standing wave, do you know at standing at... So we create a standing wave, meaning if I'm holding those two ropes heavy ropes, they move in a wave and a continuous wave, and we make contact according to our system at the 45-degree angle, but as it goes from concave to connect, so right as the race goes and your arm... Everything is in a non-linear coil, and as your hips pull it out and it goes the other way, that's where you get the biggest bump into the ball, and that's how we I use the system here, and I wanted to explain that to you a little bit better and see what you thought of that 'cause that is a nutshell, the system.

0:19:12.0 Matt Pallamary: Yeah, so I mentioned the martial arts coming from the ground up, and that also has to do with not getting knocked on your butt when somebody else brings out you, but when you're on the court and you're playing tennis, you don't always want to hear it with maximum power, maybe you just wanna hit it so I fall, it's really close to the net because you know your opponents further out, right, so you're using that figure a, you're controlling the amount of power you put in every stroke and it's gonna vary with each stroke depending on where your opponent is, if he's on one side of the court, you wanna send them the other way, you know, like I say, if you fire out and you wanna spike it, you wanna lock it, but even then you're modifying the figure at... Because you wanna have it closer when it spikes, or maybe in another situation, you wanna have it further, but it isn't that one little thing too, I wanna mention as an aside, the date, and you just mentioned... Yes, that's pretty much right. And if you split the human body, that's the golden cut, it's pretty much your belly button is at 1618 on the human body, your body is split by the Goldman at that point.

0:20:20.3 Jack Broudy: Well, that's kind of what I had always heard, 'cause I've done a lot of yoga, not a little bit of time, and yeah, that's what they talk about, the daunting, which is just above your belly button, maybe an inch or so. Yeah.

0:20:32.2 Matt Pallamary: Yeah, and the human body is full of the golden mean everywhere throughout.

0:20:39.2 Jack Broudy: So you were talking about aiming the ball, and you see this device I created here, it's hard to see with the virtual thing, but... Let's see if I move the microphone. Anyway, it has a... It's CRM. You see how it's curved, so what we say is, if you hit the ball right in the center at the 45, it'll go straight, but if you just angle your face slightly differently, it'll go cross-court or down the line, and that's... And that's... So you use your racket as a non-linear object and not a linear... Not a flat object as it is, but as a non-linear object, and so that's kinda how we aim since you brought up aiming, and that's the beauty of the 45, 'cause at the 45. Imagine trying to balance a piece of paper on a perfect 45-degree angle, you wouldn't be able to do it, because at that point at the 45, that's the easiest place to massage the ball, and that may have something to do with infinity also, because you know the 45-degree point is a perfect point and is kind of infinite, and so yes, at that point, that's why the great players can disguise their shots because at that point they just turn their hand a little bit, so the rackets is on the 45, but just slightly shaping the ball instead, just hitting the back of the box...

0:22:07.5 Matt Pallamary: Yeah, and just a little bit of nuance in the angle, I mean, almost microscopic sometimes of the angle of the racket, it... You can send it up, down, sideways, and in the end... And I know you know that I'm preaching to the choir here, but good. Best players, the racket is really just an extension of their arm. It's like having a longer limb.

0:22:33.1 Jack Broudy: That's right, and your limbs are not linear, we can bend them, we can use the elbow, you look how pivotal the elbow is in the wrist as well, so they really don't move in a linear way, even though tennis is too often. Taught in a linear way.

0:22:48.3 Matt Pallamary: Yeah, yeah, and not to get off track, but one more thing about the gold mine in the human body, the first part of your finger and the next part, that is the golden mean, those two segments to the next segment is the golden mean... That segment to the next, up to the wrist is the golden mean, and it's all throughout the body, so when you understand... And this has to do with your tennis system, when you understand the geometry of the body, then you learn how to effectively use it in a powerful way because you're aware of how it all really works and you're going with the flow, so to speak, as opposed to... Trying to force something and being step... It's the same thing with sports. Martial arts, playing drums. My drumming teacher used to yell at me because my shoulders all stretched up, he'd be relaxed, love's

0:23:44.7 Jack Broudy: Funny, even the players themselves, I think, use different terminology, I know some of my better students, and when we hit and play, we'll use words like, Oh man, we're really roping the ball today. But most people are concerned with how hard they hit the ball, they'll hit the ball hard, or I was erratic, or this or that, but you don't even use the same words because yeah, it is a feeling of your arm and racket being a rope when you really... Have the confidence to know what you're doing, and like I said earlier, that contrary motion where the racket is sort of the dog's tail, and it's following the core and... So yeah, I just, I... You got a mouthful of tennis today, I know that's not your thing.

0:24:31.0 Matt Pallamary: That a lot of my friends are tennis players, I was big on racket ball and then I had too many knee problems, so I have eventually had to stop down and none of us are getting any younger.

0:24:43.4 Jack Broudy: Gotcha, gotcha. And your Shamanism, and as long as we're still on the figure of eight, is there any health advice that could come off of this, 'cause you know tennis players are always looking to be getting better shape and feel better. I know on the court, I always tell my players to wait, and the figure eight knot just... It used to be the position where you... You constantly move your lower body, kind of like a baseball player, I had a baseball players up here like this, they're connecting their upper body to their lower body, right, where the lower body is sort of the engine, and then the limbs are kind of like the branches of a tree, when you're trying to get an apple to fall off the tree...

0:25:31.8 Matt Pallamary: Yeah, and when you go from the lower body, thinking about it as the trunk and the hips, there's tons of power in their hips, so then you take that and you channel it out through the arm and all the way out even to the fingers sometimes you're literally it's like the branch of a tree, where it extends out to the very end, and if you think about even what happens at the end of a branch of a tree, you have bugs, you have more branches coming, it's that whole thing of bringing the power up and even use the example of the martial arts punch and being gone, when you're on the court there, you're moving around and all that, but you're still coming... A lot of your power is coming from the hips, and then when you get out to your hand is with you, you can really fine-tune your stroke and how and where you're hitting it, where it's gonna go, and all of those good things. That's exactly right.

0:26:26.0 Jack Broudy: That's exactly right. And the 45 is sort of your point of optimal contact because it's at that point where the power and the control all merge. Yeah.

0:26:37.3 Matt Pallamary: Fine tuning, even here's a practice with my drumming teachers, does the drumstick and there's the rebound and all the things you do with it, but the ultimate fine-tuning control is in the fingers on how much you let the state vibrate when you hit, and if you're doing like a drum roll, particularly on a snare drum, you eat that buzz, manipulating your fingers for the fine-tuning part of it, so if you understand the physics of the body and how physics work overall, you wanna go with the flow, you wanna roll... You don't wanna swim upstream, so to speak, you don't wanna be too tight and restricted because as soon as you tighten up, you're already limiting yourself, and there's a real balance there because when you're on the court and you wanna win, you can get too tight very easily because, you know, I wanna do this, right?

0:27:39.4 Jack Broudy: And that really is what happens more in a linear mindset, I know I used to be one of those players where I just know my emotions and my ego almost took over the match, and instead of hitting a beautiful shot that I know I should be hitting, I block the ball or I chip it back just to go, Oh, I'll be ugly, this one, the next one, I'll rip, but in the juniors, you end up being ugly the home match sometimes. So yeah, I had always admired and so emulated the better players that looked like they were actually having fun out there, and the pressure didn't seem to matter one bit, it just... That's the way it was. The players, they come up with the biggest shots of the biggest moments.

0:28:25.5 Matt Pallamary: That's true. Yeah, yeah. When you really like that. That's the key. That's what the power is.

0:28:32.7 Jack Broudy: And certainly the figure eight represents, I think the ultimate imbalance.

0:28:38.0 Matt Pallamary: Oh yeah, yeah. And if you're going back and forth like that, you're balancing yourself when you're balancing against your opponent, but if you're fully aware of it and you have your body trained, then you're gonna have... You're gonna take control the way they get better or...

0:28:54.0 Jack Broudy: Yeah, well, you'd be amazed that the figure eight, at least in my thoughts with tennis, it's not just the figure eight in the left and right side, it's to figure it in the upper and lower body, that's to figure it with regards to your infinite core, your infinite Center and out to your infinite periphery, a contact, that's where you are moving the quickest, right. Because it's like a flag, it starts really small, and then as it gets out to the end of the flag, the flag is ripping and it's tearing out there, and it's the same with tennis, it's very quiet, except for a contact where it's still to the player very quiet. The racket face doesn't wobble if you hit a ball in a linear way or with your arms, so to speak, the racket head will wobble and it's not a nice hit and golf, they would call it a fad hit, but a guy like better... What's so beautiful about him is when he hits in slow motion, the racket just stays calm, a contact and a very powerful a contact.

0:29:59.3 Matt Pallamary: Yeah, that's... I think I mentioned this a little better though, that's... To me, that's relaxed tension, and that's where it's at in all performance, whether it's tennis or playing drums or even playing guitar, if you're relaxed and you're aware and you have pull awareness, but you're not overly tense and tight, that's when you get the maximum control and in the end, it's all about control and control is what wins the game.

0:30:24.9 Jack Broudy: Yeah, I agree. In control is big. Power is really emphasized in tennis, but for 99% of it of us that play, it's really more about control and consistency than it is about the power...

0:30:38.6 Matt Pallamary: Absolutely, absolutely, that people get all quit up, even in all the martial arts, and I competed at as an amateur, and when you go in there and you just wanna kill everybody, half the time you're gonna get killed yourself because you are a spun out and you're wasting energy too, when you're in that zone, when you're in that Infinity one, you're flowing, and it is effortless, and then you know, you have the moment-to-moment responses from what comes back on your opponent and you have to make those little adjustments and of course, if you get caught up in your head and you're thinking about it, you're gonna screw up too, because you... Be natural. One of my pre-martial arts teachers used to say that the goal is to be able to be knocked out and still keep fighting, because your body knows what to do, so trusting in the wisdom of your body that's not conscious. That's really one of the keys to being effective...

0:31:43.2 Jack Broudy: This might be the last question I ask you, but let's talk about consciousness, because for me, I played a set yesterday and I haven't hit a ball in a few months, just because I'm in Denver now, and this year it was a funny year, and I just didn't get on the court for the last few months, and I played yesterday, and guys, let's play a sad... Okay, so it's funny, I... To get really nervous when I played in my college career in high school and all that, and my arm would tighten up and now with my thoughts engrossed in the figure 8 and the 45-degree angle and other things, more technical, but still based on... That's basically what I do is lock into those thought lives, and now I find that I am... And I used to wanna be unconscious, I'll tell us, but I wanna play on conscious, I don't wanna think when I play... Well, the thing is, I am so focused now on lining up my shot and staying in the flow during the shot and moving with the speed of the ball and all the things we do with the system that I just play now by being super conscious instead of unconscious, by being meticulously conscious, I actually find that I can get into the process more than the drama, and I played in a surprise myself, I play normal like I played yesterday or the day before.

0:33:14.6 Jack Broudy: It's like, I've been playing all week. So maybe you can comment on that idea of unconsciousness versus super consciousness...

0:33:23.9 Matt Pallamary: Well, so there are multiple levels. That's funny, you should bring it up as I'm writing a book about that right now, I won't get into that, but the idea of being aware and yet being relaxed and trusting that your body, your body is... People don't give their body credit for how brilliant it is, but when you think about it, you're breathing, your heart rate, your body temperature, if you get too hot, your body sweats, if you're exerting yourself, you're gonna breathe heavy because your body needs more oxygen, you don't think about all those things, you don't even think about walking really, unless you're like me and you're recovering from a bum need, you're not conscious. You're just doing it. And as an example, when I'm playing drums, I let it flow. And to be honest with you, when I'm writing, there's a point where Steven King always called it, falling into the page. Well, you kind of forget about what you're doing and you flow with it, and suddenly three hours gone by and you've got four really good pages and you're like, Wow, where did that come from? Right, but you have to be aware of the processes, there's also a whole thing in Shamanism, particularly with the work I do of going from the heart to the head, so the heart is kind of...

0:34:48.3 Matt Pallamary: This is a generalization, but part is kind of the seat of emotions, and the head is the intellect, if you're too caught up in the intellect, you're not gonna get anything done, if you're too emotional, you're gonna screw up and make bad moves anyway. So there again, is sort of the figure at between the two, because you wanna have a balance, you wanna have some emotion with what you're doing, so you know, yeah, I wanna win, but you're not all spun up about it, so there's that whole back and forth between those two elements within the body that bring that balance, so it has to do with being awareness, and one of the things about stoicism, particularly when you get deeply into altered states, is you're learning to navigate, so if you're trusting in your body, you know what you're doing, you're not gonna be freaking out about something your opponent may be doing, you're gonna be aware of it, and you wanna come with a balance because the medal of the figure at the Infinity one is the point of balance. And this is all about balance. No matter where you are in a tennis struck, where you are in the court, you wanna be balanced and your delivery and your reception back and forth, you wanna be in that balance point, and when you're there, just like I of the storm.

0:36:02.9 Matt Pallamary: It's like I say, effortless master rate, you're flowing in that place of power and you're in control.

0:36:10.9 Jack Broudy: Yeah, I love it. Well, I agree, when you're in the center of the figure eight, really at any point, but in the center is where all the control power and the ease, the ease of stroke is everything we was around the center...

0:36:27.3 Matt Pallamary: Right, so that's where you wanna be, whether in your own body or with your opponent in

0:36:33.1 Jack Broudy: The core, the guest, that's why you tell people to get centered. Yeah.

0:36:37.3 Matt Pallamary: Absolutely, absolutely. I've been struggling my whole life toward it, and it has to do with the expansion of consciousness, because if you get caught up in your intellect or you get caught up in your emotions too much, you're going to make wrong decisions and you're gonna screw up, but if you have the balance between the two and you react with an equal amount of awareness on both of them, that's when you're gonna be the most effective and have the most personal power.

0:37:05.1 Jack Broudy: Well, as always, Man, I love talking to you. We gotta keep doing that. And more of this stuff, it's just... To me, it's fascinating, all that stuff, 'cause most people... 999% of the people don't live like you live here, where they're really questing for something, a deep meaning. And I do it on the court, I really do. I play left hand and right hand, and I'm always questing to do what's deeper in the sport, more than just the score, so to speak, and just bragging rights, and we try to get the most satisfaction out of our game and loving... Enjoying the way we play, so I think that's a big deal. So I think that's what you talk about a lot is getting the most out of life and getting the most out of yourself, and I don't know, being at one.

0:37:59.8 Matt Pallamary: Being at one and really seeking striving for truth, because truth is ultimately self-apparent, there's always subjectivity to truth, but in the bigger cosmic picture, it's all about greater truths, and the more you realize that there's so many forces that are way bigger than we are, that was still just learning to comprehend, and we learn how they outflow, then we go with them and we become... Peak performers because we're going with the cosmic lo... I know it sounds like a cliche. It sounds like...

0:38:35.3 Jack Broudy: Wow, it's not. You see it and guys like joke a bitch and better, or you see it in a doll, you see here, they're so present, their eyes get silver dollars. Yeah.

0:38:46.2 Matt Pallamary: They're here. They're showing up yet.

0:38:51.2 Jack Broudy: I am so thankful. I would you like to invite anyone to see some of your stuff, I'll absolutely put it on the show, once I do the writing for the show, the description, I'll put your links and all that, but if there's anything you'd like to plug, please feel free.

0:39:07.6 Matt Pallamary: Well, my new book, as I say, is, I like to call it the infinity done on steroids. Hollow graphic, cosmic man, the holographic art, the golden mean is a sub-title. And if anybody just Google my name, when the first thing that comes up is my website, and I've got tons of other podcasts, this one will be up there, I'm on lots of different podcasts and radio shows and TV shows, and people hear me on one that I get calls. Well, you'll be online. I'm like, Sure. I think this is all important stuff. So people can find me if they go to my web page, there's a contact form if they wanna connect... I'm also on Amazon, my books are all e-books. Three books and audio books. I'm still growing the audio books, and this... Maybe eight of them, 10 of them, something like that. No, 11 I think. Now, that are audio books, I'm working on that.

0:40:06.2 Jack Broudy: Great, great, great, great. Well, I've seen them all, so I'll keep following you for sure, and we'll follow one another and folks, if you enjoyed this podcast like I did, please hit the Suki button and the Like button and go visit bodies dot com. Love to see you. And you all have a great day. Matt, thanks so much again for your time today, it was really, really wonderful. And it's all important as you say...

0:40:32.6 Matt Pallamary: Yeah, thank you so much for having me, Jack, I really appreciate it. I always a pleasure to wrap with you, bro. Okay.

0:40:38.0 Jack Broudy: Alright, we talk soon, myelit.

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